Affiliation discussion

So, we have discussed formalizing the club and collecting dues. Part of those dues would go toward memberships in other groups. Here are a couple of thoughts:

TLCA (Toyota Land Cruiser Association): http://www.tlca.org/, http://www.tlca.org/clubs/chapter_startup.shtml

Tread Lightly: http://treadlightly.org/page.php/members-club/Club-Memberships

Anyone have thoughts on this?

it sounds like a good idea...i for one would be willing to pay a yearly fee..(as long as it includes stickers)...reading the TLCA charter set up ...it makes sense if ever there is a true "group" get together....i think this needs to be brought up and seriously considered ...

Agreed

bigdogdewey2 wrote:

it sounds like a good idea...i for one would be willing to pay a yearly fee..(as long as it includes stickers)...reading the TLCA charter set up ...it makes sense if ever there is a true "group" get together....i think this needs to be brought up and seriously considered ...

Yes! I plan on going from the Charter setup. I would like to present ideas at the BWW meet and greet as well as the OBX weekend. I am comming up with ideas and will have to build out the group admin infrastructure (Bank account, official charity association{WWF} so that we are official with them, official mission statement, etc). As far as what I have seen, if we have the people who are commjitted to the events we have planned and the turnout from the truck show, our "official numbers" that are dedicated to showing up to group events are anywhere from 20-35 members. I know we have more on the forum and even more signed up on Facebook, but I realistically think that for our group to actually become "official", we are looking at maybe 30 dues paying members. And that is great! I also think that would encourage Leith to participate even more with us as a Corporate Sponsor.

So, more to come. Like I said, I will prepare something for the BWW meet and the OBX and try to trear those as "official" meetings to gauge interest and gather ideas.

well you can count on me at the BBW meet and greet...i really hope that we can get a good representation of who and how many from that meet...looking forward to it definetaly...

I think that it is a great idea....tread lightly.

I dont think the group is solid enough yet... Let it ride a year or two and see what you have as far as regular members.

The top 5 posting members have less than 2000 posts between them. Our site is hosted ona free forum which is great but no one is going to pay for a forum of this stature.

When chartering a club you want to have a draw that new members would be willing to pay for. Most people who will pay to join will be mostly forum users who get out once or twice a year. Build the forums notoriety get some traffic in here with some legit tech article and writeups (i.e. more than Tire reviews and light installs), and make it available on tapatalk for mobile users.

Once you get a little traffic flowing then you start attracting a dealership or aftermarket company to give members a chintz discount like free shipping on orders of 50$ or more or something to that note. This will drive repeat visits and demonstrate a value for being a member.

The group also needs to determine whether they want to be a group known for actually going on trips as a group or a group known for a lot of individual trail rides with each one being organized by a single random member.

As much as I enjoy this group of people that I have met in person so far I know I for one wouldnt be willing to pay one penny to be a "member" of NCFJ cruisers at this point. There is no value to it.

Now I mean no offense here at all but this is the way I look at where this forum currently stands in terms of beomcing a due collecting club... Lets say a run was planned for MEMBERS ONLY, how much offroad experience is there on this forum? If a new guy were to show up and break something who has the mechanical knowledge to get it patched back together? Who on here would feel comfortable driving all the trail runs with no spotter and then spotting everyone else through? I just dont see the experience on this forum in the offroading world to make me feel comfortable as a new member with a new FJ and little or no experience driving offroad, to make me feel that paying a yearly due would get me anything I couldnt get without paying dues. Mabey Im wrong and there is a lot more experience in here than it seems but thats just the vibe I get reading in here.

How to remedy this problem? Its already started with teh enthusiasm for individual Uwharrie runs. Get a solid core group comfortable with what stock/midly modded/highly modded fj's can do and they become your experienced guys who contribute tech writeups as they further modify thier trucks. I think given some time, 1 year mabey a little more, and the same level of enthusiasm paired with increasing membership could result in a club worth paying dues into but at this point its too small to soon and too few.

Some examples off shartered clubs gone wrong.
www.webwheelign.com (try to find a recent post)
www.noas4x4club.com (very successful brand based club had 50+ trucks at the last group ride before they chartered with SFWDA)
www.nissan4wheelers.com (Has discount deals for members and a yearly run with 100+ trucks)

This group has a lot of potential but is still in its infancy.

crogers6569 , While I do agree with you on allot of points. But someone has to pay for the forums and the server upkeep.

*Time and effort to get together runs.

Please do not get me wrong at all . I use to run gaming forums for people all over the world. Playing in tournaments. If you give the owner the same treatment I got this weekend on the trail at URE. I am sure you will have people waiting at the door to get in. I learned so much with all the people that ran this weekend. I learned what my truck was lacking and what I needed to do before my next run. I saw trucks that I only have seen in a magazine before. crogers6569 you are a super trail guy and spotter. Watching you in my truck gave me much more of an idea of what I have been missing out on all these years. I am sure I will be back and not be so tense the next time.

A club like this does take time to evolve into what you really want. I am sure we will get there. But not one person should bare all the cost of everything either.



I think we should have volunteers to pay for site and server. Then grow into more over a period of time. This way we will not look like the blue room.

personally I would stick with this free forum and let it grow some on its own through years end. Then go to our core members and discuss having a more permanent forum solution put together.

My main point is that we not get so ahead of ourselves in trying to make a dues paying chartered club. You need a much more solid core group and a lot of traffic on forums in order to make club dues attractive to everyone.

I would like to thank crogers for introducing me to this forum and group. I have to say that I agree with him word for word about this subject. I am very excited to see locals in our area come together on this forum. A lot goes into this and a lot of behind the scenes stuff as well but i still think we need to grow.

@Darklight and crogers6569

I completely understand where you guys are coming from. I just want to provide a little history on the group and where the idea for a dues paying suggestion came from.

NCFJ Cruisers started as a Facebook page/group back in January of 2010. That makes the group officially almost 2 years old.

I started the group then and have administered the FB page and our free forum since its creation. I have a few key members and "founding fathers" that moderate the forum with me and I frequently discuss issues with them. It is this key group of members that have assisted me with the work that has been done for the group thus far. So I always take into consideration their input as well as the input from other members. (That is why I created the Forum suggestion section of our free forum http://forum.ncfjcruisers.com/f46-forum-suggestions-and-ideas

That section is open to all members and I have actually acted on about 95% of the member suggestions.

Also, I personally purchased our domain name and dedicate alot of time to both the FB page and the forum, in addition to attempting to and implimenting group events. What you guys have missed prior to joining is 3 Officially recognized group events:

1. Our initial group outing at URE way back in spring of 2010.

2. We attempted a group family outing at Jordan Lake - I say attempt because we had buy in from about 10 members and only 3 of us ended showing.

3. The First NCFJ Cruisers Truck Show sponsored with Leith Toyota spring of 2011. - 30+members of NCFJ participated as well as members from ONSC. It was a very good turnout complete with dealership sponsorship and vendor participation. Was it perfect? no, was it good - yes, and every member in a post-show poll said they would participate again next year. ( I can provided more details as requested).

4. I am in process of organizing our Beach run in October, another group recognized event.

5. Jami (Suncruiser6) is working on the Group family meet and greet in Greensboro this weekend.

So, now I want to lay out a little of where I see the group going and what I intended it purpose to be. (I wanted to save this until the Group meet in Greensboro this weekend, but I will start the ball rolling now).

1. I started this group as a way for FJ Cruiser owners to meet each other on FaceBook and start to socialize. It grew quickly to include 4Runners and Tacomas.

2. The group developed and more members wanted to to meet people in person. This was of course the intended purpose. So we did a URE run.

3. I never intended this to be a "hardcore offroad only" group complete with experienced spotters, etc. Instead, it was meant for a place that all FJ enthuisiasts could meet and discuss, participate and have fun. I personally will not get my DD into risky situations just to call myself an "off roader" (I have been there and done that....lol).

4. I had hoped this group could be a place to meet long term friends that share common interests. I also hoped that we would broaden our activities to include shows, dinners, off roading/beach runs and anything else anyone can suggest.

5. Also, in joining Tead Lghtly and groups like that, we could make a better name for our group and maybe help out the community, etc. In fact, I want to become an official group participant in raising donations for Wounded Warrior and groups like that. But we need to look official in doing so. Becoming a TCLA member, we can get that guidance.

What I have just stated above is very high level stuff. It is open to suggestions, but we really need group meetings as well.

THE ONLY PROBLEM I have encountered, and I have discussed this with quite a few members is that we get alot of "I'll be there", or "I plan on being there" or I want to do it , count me in....but" when it comes to group organized events. Now, I know things come up in peoples lives and jobs happen and events occur that change plans. BUT, in having people who are willing to be paid members, we would get better commitment and we would also know those willing to dedicate themselves to a group and those that would prefer not to. All that is good. Dues would be decided upon by the group and what the dues would go to pay for would also be decided upon by those who pay membership. Believe me, I know this would not b e an easy task for me and I would require sincere honest assistance for a few that would be willing to help. So, I guess we can discuss further this weekend and at OBX in October.

What does everyone think?

David

At this time I am unsure of what the value would be in being a paid member. Much would depend on the amount of the dues and a break down of what these dues go towards. Right now the forum seems to be a great place to meet local people who share similar interests.

If there is a behind the scene financial cost to run this, then that amount should be clearly stated. Members then could decide to share the cost, solicit advertising, or move back to a free medium such as FB.

Like I said above, I am not sure what the member dues would be put towards.

My fear is that by starting a dues based membership with 30+ members will net you a 10+ member group with not a lot of draw for new members leading to a few ultra dedicated members.

I would be willing to help financially as needed to help stir some movement in membership. Once we have 100 regularly posting members on a forum that is an extra stop from a site like facebook that the average american checks multiple times daily, I would be all for a dues based membership in order to upgrade services to the forum/club members.

I would also be willing to plan any offroad events whether I would be able to attend or not. I have a lot of experience in spotting stock vehicles buggies and everything in between. I also have the tools and knowledge as well as experience to know when someone is puching their truck to far and could cause damage. I think anyone who has been out with me will vouch for my cautious leadership on a trail.

I also understand the idea of having a club that isnt dedicated to offroading but in the current market most people looking for a forum for an FJ are looking to lift it or explore the backcountry. That said I have been very involved in VW clubs where the main meet was heading to the local pub or restraunt and having dinner with friends and standing in the parking lot talking about our cars and showing off recent mods.

The thing is I just dont see enough REAL interest YET and really liek where I see this group going right now, I would hate to see it damped of stifled by enacting a dues system AT THIS POINT.

One way I can see the club really getting kicked off with a membership is to start planning now for a late spring/early summer membership drive/meet and greet at a place like Uwharrie where everyone can camp together. You charge 25$ per driver 10$ per passenger and provide a hamburger/hotdog dinner saturday night. If you plan for everyone to stay at Group Camp at Uwharrie camping is free (no hookups), get in touch with some NC companies to sponsor some raffle items and include 1 ticket per person registered and charge extra for extra tickets, provide guided trail runs for stock/light mod and modded/experienced drivers, and everyone pays for attendance gets the first year membership included. That should be enough to get the name out there, get the funds together for chartering, and if properly promoted on local toyota and 4wheeling forums as well as facebook then you get a solid membership base from the start.

As you said I know it takes a lot of behind the scenes to get this thing off the ground. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.... You know where to find me

Very cool guys, keep the feedback coming.

Chad, I truly appreciate your input and you are a valued member. Your skills have definitely been noted and appreciated. I would be glad for you to take the lead in some of the off road events, you seem to be full of good info. When we eventually meet in person, we will chat more about permanently expanding your role within the group. I just want to get to know you better is all.

Funny thing about all this discussion is not one person asked what the dues would be $ value), and I did say that any dues would be solely used for the club and its members. If anyone has ever entered into something like this, they would know that there is a lot of accountability involved. This accountability is usually delivered at quarterly meeting in the form of budgets and meeting minutes.

If anyone was wondering here are examples of where dues would go:

1. Payment for and upkeep/maint of official group website.

2. Membership in groups like Tread Lightly - affiliate memberships would go before the group for a vote of course. These groups in turn benefit us by providing funding for organized trail main and cleanups at places like URE, etc. And not to mention the political lead these groups take in keeping the existing trails we have open.

3. They could go for group organized events (food, entertainment, etc)

4. Group merchandise

and the list extends to what ever the group collectively votes on.

Also, when we get there (if we get around to becoming official), there would be a Treasurer who would present the budget. I know I am going deep into this, but based on some of the remarks, I am not sure what some people maybe thinking, when I have listed where the dues would go toward in the post, a few times. I know there are those that have never been part of a paid membership group, so I just want to be clear, hence the lengthy posts.

That said, of course, this would be a decision cultivated and made through feedback here on the Forum. If most want a very informal place where individual rides are setup, then we can do that. If we want to take the group forward, we can do that too. I like the people here and what this has become so far. I do see some serious interest and it comes from a wide variety of people. This is what I had hoped for from the beginning. I see roles developing within the group and I am making note of the participation and comments to use for future officer level participation. Again, the reason for this thread is so I can get an idea of what we could do with the right people.

Another thing, I have personally spoke with quite a few people in the automotive business (Dealerships, shops, etc). All of them said we need to be "official" to get sponsorship on a permanent basis from these businesses. So if we want discounts, donations for raffles and assistance in event organizations etc, we need to show real commitment. I mean we have to start somewhere. ONSC states on there site that they have 71 members. I know they did not start at that number, and if I am correct, it started out small as well. Because of their official organization, they are able to hold professional events that provide the members with entertainment as well as snag big sponsors and dealership participation.

But like I said, we have a GREAT group of people here and I LOVE where we are going. Keep feedback coming and as I have said, I am so glad you are all here!!

Thanks

David

Brian7758 wrote:

At this time I am unsure of what the value would be in being a paid member. Much would depend on the amount of the dues and a break down of what these dues go towards. Right now the forum seems to be a great place to meet local people who share similar interests.

If there is a behind the scene financial cost to run this, then that amount should be clearly stated. Members then could decide to share the cost, solicit advertising, or move back to a free medium such as FB.

Like I said above, I am not sure what the member dues would be put towards.

Brian! Hey, thanks for the input!

I of course would provide a breakdown with hard numbers once I see interest. I do not currently see too much interest, so I informally posted this thread based on feedback I received from alot of the guys that have participated in the past three offical group events. Before I spend too much time on a detailed financial breakdown, I would like to see more people expressing positive interest.

There is no financial cost to the forum or FB, other that securing the domain name, which I paid for because I wanted the domain name for use on a future official website (right now, I am using Go Daddy to redirect the URL to the forum). The only thing I have invested so far is alot of time.

Finally, to address your statement " I am not sure what the member dues would be put towards.", I indicated throughout the thread some of the things that dues would go toward. (Club affiliations, group events, merchandise, anything the club would vote on, etc)

Hope this helps and as I have said, i am very glad you and the rest of the guys participate in the forum!

Thanks

David

I agree with you David entirely that becoming a chartered organization is something that NEEDS to happen in order to have bigger events. What I am trying to convey is that the site and most members seem very new to the forum based club and a due or fee of any sort MAY stifle that growth potential. If you need help in financing any of the behind the scenes costs of operating please PM me and we can talk about what is needed and what I can provide. I can flip a car and finance a lot of bandwidth or web space if needed. I would rather do that then have the growth of the group slowed or dampened in any way by dues.

As far as permanent sponsors I know the owner of Modern Toyota in Winston Salem, I have connections with AC automotive in Winston, I can provide promotional printing at a discounted rate through my work or provide basic printing services for free. I also have connections at Gofer-it Offroad, East Coast Gear Supply, 4Wheel Parts in raleigh, and Budbuilt.

Let me know what you need and I will do what I can to make it happen.

As far as Addressing concerns like Brian's that is why i suggested a membership drive/meet and greet/campout you drum up a huge amount of interest, get a captive audience, and if you ask sponsors for small gift certificate type prizes that will wind up drawing customers back to them to spend the certificate and possibly more the sponsors see a budding club that is becoming official and the potential for more income from the positive feedback from group members who won the certificates and used them. As I was saying the funds generated from a properly planned weekend like this can cover costs of chartering with multiple organizations and leave some money in the coffers to use else-ways.

crogers6569 wrote:

I agree with you David entirely that becoming a chartered organization is something that NEEDS to happen in order to have bigger events. What I am trying to convey is that the site and most members seem very new to the forum based club and a due or fee of any sort MAY stifle that growth potential. If you need help in financing any of the behind the scenes costs of operating please PM me and we can talk about what is needed and what I can provide. I can flip a car and finance a lot of bandwidth or web space if needed. I would rather do that then have the growth of the group slowed or dampened in any way by dues.

As far as permanent sponsors I know the owner of Modern Toyota in Winston Salem, I have connections with AC automotive in Winston, I can provide promotional printing at a discounted rate through my work or provide basic printing services for free. I also have connections at Gofer-it Offroad, East Coast Gear Supply, 4Wheel Parts in raleigh, and Budbuilt.

Let me know what you need and I will do what I can to make it happen.

As far as Addressing concerns like Brian's that is why i suggested a membership drive/meet and greet/campout you drum up a huge amount of interest, get a captive audience, and if you ask sponsors for small gift certificate type prizes that will wind up drawing customers back to them to spend the certificate and possibly more the sponsors see a budding club that is becoming official and the potential for more income from the positive feedback from group members who won the certificates and used them. As I was saying the funds generated from a properly planned weekend like this can cover costs of chartering with multiple organizations and leave some money in the coffers to use else-ways.

Awesome Chad! I appreciate all the offers. We could use the sponsor contacts. And you are right, we need to meet and discuss as you are a great addition to the club.

Also, to provide some more insight to what has been done so far, I wanted to recap our biggest event, which occurred before you joined. We had the NCFJCruiser truck show, which is slated to become an annual event. During that event we had the following:

Participation and sponsorship from Leith Toyota in Raleigh. They provided a BBQ lunch for everyone in attendance, they donated prizes to the raffle, provided our first run of club stickers, gave away tshirts to all participants as well as other SWAG.

We had raffle prize donations from Aamco of Raleigh, Chase @ East Coast Gear Supply donated prizes and setup booth. We had other vendors such as Ultimate Auto Glass Radio Active Car Audio of Garner, Dent Eliminators of Raleigh and Rimguard that all donated services and prizes to the raffle as well as participated in the event.

Here is a link to the flyer: http://leithtoyota.com/pages/ncfj_truckshow.php

Leith is ready to step up as a sponsor, but we need to show our dedication.

So, all of your contacts would greatly help, just let me know what we need to do to get them on board. As far as other funding goes, I too could front a bunch of $$$ but it is not fiscally advisable when together, we can put our ideas to work. Will you be at the beach when we head down in Oct? If so we can meet then, if not, we may need to meet halfway for a beer or something.

Im a definite tentative for the beach run... was definite until my boss got fired and my new boss isn't sure what he feels about vacation timing vs work events.

I can be where ever whenever for a local brew though. I wasnt around for the leith event but from the sounds of it it would have been an awesome time to sign up members and become a chartered club. What I am proposing is hold off till early spring when URE reopens and hold another similar event just start the planning process now. That way we can draw in members from all over everywhere have them make their plans now for a weekend camping trip. If we can get it planned by january then we can paper toyota dealerships from coast to mountains with flyers advertising the event and drumming up interest.

From experience it is possible to have 100 trucks at a preliminary event with proper advertising. It is also a whole lot easier to secure a one time sponsor to get the event rolling if we have a registration form of people who have paid to attend and start approaching vendors in march about sponsoring the event. After the event with the club official you can reapproach the sponsors about becoming more permanent.

crogers6569 wrote:

Im a definite tentative for the beach run... was definite until my boss got fired and my new boss isn't sure what he feels about vacation timing vs work events.

I can be where ever whenever for a local brew though. I wasnt around for the leith event but from the sounds of it it would have been an awesome time to sign up members and become a chartered club. What I am proposing is hold off till early spring when URE reopens and hold another similar event just start the planning process now. That way we can draw in members from all over everywhere have them make their plans now for a weekend camping trip. If we can get it planned by january then we can paper toyota dealerships from coast to mountains with flyers advertising the event and drumming up interest.

From experience it is possible to have 100 trucks at a preliminary event with proper advertising. It is also a whole lot easier to secure a one time sponsor to get the event rolling if we have a registration form of people who have paid to attend and start approaching vendors in march about sponsoring the event. After the event with the club official you can reapproach the sponsors about becoming more permanent.

Sounds great, we will talk more!!!

hey ..just thought i would join you for the BEER and meet....lol...on a serious note personally i would love to be a part of all this. i mean from handing out flyers to whatever...just let me know...very interested in all this...and im a go on whatever takes place...

bigdogdewey2 wrote:

hey ..just thought i would join you for the BEER and meet....lol...on a serious note personally i would love to be a part of all this. i mean from handing out flyers to whatever...just let me know...very interested in all this...and im a go on whatever takes place...

Thanks man! It is good to know there is support!!! PS - I would def post any beer meet I am part of for all to join

I think making this club "official" is a great idea. True, it is still relatively young, but the FB group did start two years ago. Since then, we've had a few meetups and started the forum.

As everyone can see, the forum doesnt have NEARLY as many people as the FB group does, despite the forum address being placed and announced all over the FB page. This is interesting because everyone who joined the FB group supposedly is interested.... but not interested enough to join the forum?

I saw this same trend a little over a month ago when Flushead invited 20 rigs out to his house outside Asheville for some camping, eating and wheeling on Cold Mountain. This event was announced (with plenty of notice) on the FB page as well as on the forum. Most people didnt even respond and I was told the day before the event that 7 FJs would be heading out. The end result was ME and John Desmonds (from Leith) Wrangler. Thats it. Frankly, it was embarrassing considering Flushead's hospitality and given the only thing anyone had to pay for was gas to get there.

Now, I understand people are busy and things come up, but the main issue here is lack of FOLLOW THROUGH; people who say they will do soemthing and dont. The cookout David planned last year is another example he mentioned. If nothing else, if people are paying to be in a club (regardless of cost), they are more likely to attend events because they feel financially tied to it. The bigger idea, however, is that we would only get the people who are TRULY interested in the club, resulting in guaranteed attendance and help with events, instead of wondering who will show up and who wont.

While many people may be against paying dues this early, I also think its a good idea. We're not talking about hundreds of dollars here. This money would cover food, merchandise, club upkeep and anything else to make events easier and have us pay less the actual day of.

Having a formal club, with appropriate people given certain club responsibilities would not only make event planning easier, but it would also help us be more time efficient and get the most out of the year in an organized fashion.

Just my opinion

Also, with all the people David knows in the area (Matt- Aamco, John- Leith to name a few), we should be able to get lots of people on board but we do need to make this look like a serious group first, not just a bunch of friends with similar interests.

The main issue I have is that if you cant get people to come to free events then having to pay a club due or for the event will make turnouts even smaller.

When we all meet hopefully at the OBX meet I will let you guys know some of my personal experiences with clubs.