NCFJ Cruisers
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.


Official Forum of the North Carolina FJ Cruisers
 
HomePortalRegisterLog in

 

 ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC

Go down 
+8
bigdogdewey2
lrgrnr
smoky cruiser
CarolinaCruiser15
FiJiKrawl
ULTIMATEcruiser
Crazy Hube
David B
12 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Southeast Overland
VENDOR - SEO
VENDOR - SEO
Southeast Overland

Posts : 459
Points : 4109
Join date : 2012-01-18
Age : 42
Location : Seneca, SC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 11:07 am

David B wrote:
Ok, update....Heard back from Caldwell County Sheriffs department today. They consulted their 911 coordinator and basically, the part of the road that is "developed" is in Caldwell County, and of course is public access. Where the road "ends" (look at Google maps) is, I guess where the "trail" begins and most of that is in Watauga County, so I was referred to the Watauga County GIS website for further information. What can be gathered fron the Watauga GIS site is that ALL the land along the "old road" is private property. I called the Watauga County Sheriff department and I am still waiting to hear back from them.

----------------------

I went one step further and have a friend who has a close friend who is an officer with Blowing Rock PD and asked their advice. Here is what I found out from BRPD:

" ******** spoke to one of the other BRPD officers who used to have a Jeep he would take offroad (yea I know). Here's what he said: "####### says it's still technically a county road, but there's posted private property all along the road.................."


----------------------

So....things are getting a little clearer...The more I dig, the more this looks like it is still considered a "county road" However, nowhere at all is it ok to leave the trail. Leaving the trail at any point, is considered trespassing on privately owned land. Also, from what I am reading, there may be some unsavory activity and characters that may be lurking back along the trail, so no one should EVER travel alone...

Thanks for all the leg work. I advise that you do NOT take what is on the GIS website as gospel. GIS data is approximate and won't hold up for squat in a legal situation.

bigdogdewey2 wrote:
honestly it sounds like if there "WAS" a road at any point in time then there still is a road. Ive never heard of any level of government selling off or giving back roads to private owners. as far as the "play" areas its simple...dont play. The road itself is fun enough as it is.

Governments don't often abandon roads but it does happen.

Roads will more often be 'forgotten' than abandoned. 'Forgotten' roads that are then found really can be a PITA if you are representing the land owner.

I deal with old roads fairly often, and GIS daily. I've been able to travel some 'nearly forgotten' roads in SC/GA/NC that were flat out awesome - more so b/c no one else knew about them. Many of these were later abandoned by the government. They are often abandoned because the city/co/local government discovers that they now have a new liability as far as maintenance costs, and other liability exposures, so they say "heck with this, the landowner can have it back." especially if the road does not provide any needed access for the government.
Back to top Go down
http://www.SoutheastOverland.com
FJerYuri
Trail Scout
Trail Scout
FJerYuri

Posts : 189
Points : 3912
Join date : 2011-08-31
Location : China Grove NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 12:29 pm

I know from doing some surveying work years ago that in many states there is legal precedent for private property owners to reclaim abandoned right of ways if they can show they have been actively maintaining the property in question, and if the easement is adjoining their property with no clear physical boundary such as a fence. I remember an example of this involved a resident who had extended his backyard into an old abandoned alleyway decades ago. He went to the city and was granted the additional land because he maintained it as part of his yard and had done so for years. I believe he had to get his neighbor to sign a waiver that they didn't want to dispute the area in question. But had he not been maintaining the piece of property I think he would likely have had to split the plot with his neighbor and redraw a joining property line in the middle of the alleyway.

Anyway, the point is that in some cases a private property owner can demonstrate legal possession to an abandoned easement or right of way if they show active ongoing maintenance.

In this case, I think the following points bear consideration:
1. Everyone drives his/her own vehicle at their own risk and liability at all times. There are no protections from legal actions regarding trespassing just because you were with a group or saw some information online and decided to join in the fun.
2. Legal disputes of any kind regardless of outcome are BAD for the reputation of the club, and sport in general, and as such should be avoided at all costs.
3. Trespassing onto private property is always risky. Trespassing on private property in the backwoods and mountains of North Carolina is damn near suicidal considering that most locals in the remote parts of the state are very sensitive to their privacy and often carry firearms and/or banjos. (Get the point - Do not mess with these folks)
4. Often times access to private property can be requested along with a reasonable amount of grease for the wheels. (i.e. Money for the owner in exchange for access) When/if confronted by an angry property owner, never argue with them. Apologize sincerely, agree to immediately leave and never return and then actually leave. But sometimes a phone call to ask permission to enter the area along with an offer to compensate will do wonders to both gain the desired access but also to gain a friend to the sport for the future.

Finally I'd just say, remember that just because you have a fancy truck, a map and a cell phone signal doesn't mean you are immune from the wrath of an angry local determined to put a stop to your trouble making on his mountain. Tread lightly, but also tread cautiously.
My $.02
Back to top Go down
smoky cruiser
Tail Gunner
Tail Gunner
smoky cruiser

Posts : 656
Points : 4353
Join date : 2012-01-19
Age : 41
Location : weaverville nc

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: private property   ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 08, 2012 9:47 am

Up here in the mountains people are no more sketchy than in Chapel Hill Durham raliegh. I have had gun shots let off several times in the triangle 4 wheeling, even over on poole rd in 98 some let a shotgun off repeatedly when we were out there. That road is legit and if you stay on the trail the owners have 0 legal right to complain. It is highly unlikely to have a land owner shoot at you. If they are out in the woods they will have a gun (bc they are scared of running into a group of men on atvs or trucks and wanna protect themselves) That said it is always a good idea to bring a rifle or pistol any where you are remote, and may need protection etc. Respect their areas stay on trail and no worries. That one gentleman probably is moonshining or growing pot and is nervous about all the traffic back near his crops.
Back to top Go down
http://greenmindedcarpentry.blogspot.com/
Guest
Guest



***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Aug 08, 2012 8:48 pm

FJerYuri wrote:
I know from doing some surveying work years ago that in many states there is legal precedent for private property owners to reclaim abandoned right of ways if they can show they have been actively maintaining the property in question, and if the easement is adjoining their property with no clear physical boundary such as a fence. I remember an example of this involved a resident who had extended his backyard into an old abandoned alleyway decades ago. He went to the city and was granted the additional land because he maintained it as part of his yard and had done so for years. I believe he had to get his neighbor to sign a waiver that they didn't want to dispute the area in question. But had he not been maintaining the piece of property I think he would likely have had to split the plot with his neighbor and redraw a joining property line in the middle of the alleyway.

Anyway, the point is that in some cases a private property owner can demonstrate legal possession to an abandoned easement or right of way if they show active ongoing maintenance.

In this case, I think the following points bear consideration:
1. Everyone drives his/her own vehicle at their own risk and liability at all times. There are no protections from legal actions regarding trespassing just because you were with a group or saw some information online and decided to join in the fun.
2. Legal disputes of any kind regardless of outcome are BAD for the reputation of the club, and sport in general, and as such should be avoided at all costs.
3. Trespassing onto private property is always risky. Trespassing on private property in the backwoods and mountains of North Carolina is damn near suicidal considering that most locals in the remote parts of the state are very sensitive to their privacy and often carry firearms and/or banjos. (Get the point - Do not mess with these folks)
4. Often times access to private property can be requested along with a reasonable amount of grease for the wheels. (i.e. Money for the owner in exchange for access) When/if confronted by an angry property owner, never argue with them. Apologize sincerely, agree to immediately leave and never return and then actually leave. But sometimes a phone call to ask permission to enter the area along with an offer to compensate will do wonders to both gain the desired access but also to gain a friend to the sport for the future.

Finally I'd just say, remember that just because you have a fancy truck, a map and a cell phone signal doesn't mean you are immune from the wrath of an angry local determined to put a stop to your trouble making on his mountain. Tread lightly, but also tread cautiously.
My $.02

Very well said. Advice taken here.
Back to top Go down
FiJiKrawl
Trail Scout
Trail Scout
FiJiKrawl

Posts : 196
Points : 3633
Join date : 2012-06-14
Age : 38
Location : Charlotte, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 11, 2012 11:40 pm

Did the Watauga Sheriff's Office ever get back with you?
Back to top Go down
David B
ADMINISTRATOR
ADMINISTRATOR
David B

Posts : 2677
Points : 7349
Join date : 2011-05-01
Age : 49
Location : Wake Forest, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 11, 2012 11:52 pm

FiJiKrawl wrote:
Did the Watauga Sheriff's Office ever get back with you?

Nope, I will be calling again Monday.

_________________
Contact Info: dbronson@ncfjcruisers.com

Follow me on Twitter: @NCFJ_Cruisers1

NCFJ Cruisers YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/NCFJCruisers

2010 Trail Teams Edition - ToyTec 3" Ultimate Lift, Light Racing UCA's, PIAA XTreme White Plus headlights, PIAA 520 series Fog/Driving lights, 2010 BudBuilt Front Skid, BudBuilt engine skid, Ricochet LCA guards, BajaRack OEM roofrack basket, MaxTrax recovery ramps, Husky Floor Liners, Midland 75-822 40 Channel 2 Way Radio, Bandi Mount with 4' Firestick II, OrangeBoxx Side Cubby PSD (NCFJ Edition), Outrider Suspension armor, K&N drop in airfilter for on-road travel, OEM Airfilter when wheeling.....
Back to top Go down
http://forum.ncfjcruisers.com
David B
ADMINISTRATOR
ADMINISTRATOR
David B

Posts : 2677
Points : 7349
Join date : 2011-05-01
Age : 49
Location : Wake Forest, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 12, 2012 9:57 pm

I am getting more information that this is indeed a State abandoned road, technically public, however, the road itself has deviated onto private property since its abandonment 50 years ago. I would love to see us work woth property owners to settle this and make it an undisputed trail. I am thinking we reach out and offer "trail cleanup/improvement" days, maybe once a quarter? Just a thought....would take a good deal of effort.

_________________
Contact Info: dbronson@ncfjcruisers.com

Follow me on Twitter: @NCFJ_Cruisers1

NCFJ Cruisers YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/NCFJCruisers

2010 Trail Teams Edition - ToyTec 3" Ultimate Lift, Light Racing UCA's, PIAA XTreme White Plus headlights, PIAA 520 series Fog/Driving lights, 2010 BudBuilt Front Skid, BudBuilt engine skid, Ricochet LCA guards, BajaRack OEM roofrack basket, MaxTrax recovery ramps, Husky Floor Liners, Midland 75-822 40 Channel 2 Way Radio, Bandi Mount with 4' Firestick II, OrangeBoxx Side Cubby PSD (NCFJ Edition), Outrider Suspension armor, K&N drop in airfilter for on-road travel, OEM Airfilter when wheeling.....
Back to top Go down
http://forum.ncfjcruisers.com
bigdogdewey2
ADMINISTRATOR
ADMINISTRATOR
bigdogdewey2

Posts : 3697
Points : 7548
Join date : 2011-08-30
Age : 53
Location : High Point, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 12, 2012 10:19 pm

David i was going to PM you with this exact idea a couple of days ago and got busy with something else...since we are in the process of becoming "tread lightly" certified this would be a great idea ...i think if we could clean the trail do work to the trail clearly mark the trail and that sort of thing and show how it could benefit the "private property owners". i think it would be a good idea too to offer a meet and greet with the property owners too...

I know that you already said that but that is what i was thinking a couple of days ago and i didnt want to lose my train of thought...
Back to top Go down
MadToy
SUPPORTING MEMBER
SUPPORTING MEMBER
MadToy

Posts : 1571
Points : 5182
Join date : 2012-02-14
Age : 52
Location : Huntersville, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 13, 2012 10:23 am

While this sounds like the right thing to do, I think you may be kidding yourselves in thinking it would be possible. There are quite a few land owners along the trail. Even if you were able to contact them all, getting them all to agree on letting wheelers pass through will no doubt be impossible. No matter what you offer, some will never agree to allowing people to drive through.

And that in itself is the bigger problem. You're now giving them the false belief that they own/control the road (like the person that emailed David), when in fact they don't. I have a house with an alley behind it. It's a public road, but I get angry when people that don't live on our block drive through it. If they stopped to ask me if they can drive through it when they want, I would say no - and expect not to see them do it again, even though I have no legal right to stop them if they do.

Cleaning up the trail is certainly always a good idea, and trying to let the land owners know what you're doing is a good step - but in my opinion it would be a bad idea to try to meet with them and let them have an opinion on allowing access. Especially since you won't be able to control the 98% of the other folks that ride through the trail doing what they please. The land owners would blame you/us, because somehow they'll think you are now responsible for everyone that rides through the trail.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 13, 2012 11:04 am

I definitely agree with this. Even if we cleaned up the trail, planted trees, and washed the river critters certain landowners would never want us back there. It is far less about environmental preservation and more about better hunting grounds, sense pf privacy, and possibly questionable activity.

With this said being good stewards of land is the right thing to do. Not because the landowners will like us, but because it is what responsible offroad enthusiast should do. We should make sure to never leave trash, spray paint rocks/trees, etc.

Having a clean up day would be great. I know I would pitch in. However this should just be something we do. If we want more recognition of good will then we should alert/coordinate with the sheriff's office. Nick is right on that coordinating with the land owner's would further their belief that they have deniability of passage on the trail.
Back to top Go down
David B
ADMINISTRATOR
ADMINISTRATOR
David B

Posts : 2677
Points : 7349
Join date : 2011-05-01
Age : 49
Location : Wake Forest, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 13, 2012 2:55 pm

I am doing more followup this evening. I agree with Brian and Madtoy. However, from pics and videos, we are also giving these people fodder for their argument, just the same as going to and communicating with them would as well. I agree that we do not want to imply that we are cleaning up private property. I merely meant that we could make it known that we were actively willing to clean up the PUBLIC areas. Also a point was made in a second email from the landowner that he is tired of "navigating rutted out areas of the road", areas that he has to use to access his property. Also, he made a point that a big reason the landowners are upset is all the horseplay that goes on in the creek causes issues down stream. He also pointed out that only "off roaders cross the creek where there is a perfectly good bridge" and that really angers the locals. I'm sure we can all see his point.

_________________
Contact Info: dbronson@ncfjcruisers.com

Follow me on Twitter: @NCFJ_Cruisers1

NCFJ Cruisers YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/NCFJCruisers

2010 Trail Teams Edition - ToyTec 3" Ultimate Lift, Light Racing UCA's, PIAA XTreme White Plus headlights, PIAA 520 series Fog/Driving lights, 2010 BudBuilt Front Skid, BudBuilt engine skid, Ricochet LCA guards, BajaRack OEM roofrack basket, MaxTrax recovery ramps, Husky Floor Liners, Midland 75-822 40 Channel 2 Way Radio, Bandi Mount with 4' Firestick II, OrangeBoxx Side Cubby PSD (NCFJ Edition), Outrider Suspension armor, K&N drop in airfilter for on-road travel, OEM Airfilter when wheeling.....
Back to top Go down
http://forum.ncfjcruisers.com
FJ Derek
SUPPORTING MEMBER
SUPPORTING MEMBER
FJ Derek

Posts : 571
Points : 3998
Join date : 2012-07-12
Age : 36
Location : Greensboro

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2012 6:19 pm

So would you guys say Richland Rd is ok to travel as long as you dont explore off the road? Going to be in Blowing Rock this weekend and wanting to explore a little.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2012 7:13 pm

I would have no problem driving through there. Best to stay on the path though.
Back to top Go down
David B
ADMINISTRATOR
ADMINISTRATOR
David B

Posts : 2677
Points : 7349
Join date : 2011-05-01
Age : 49
Location : Wake Forest, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2012 7:35 pm

As Brian said I would stay on the trail did not venture off. And it's always a good idea to have somebody with you

_________________
Contact Info: dbronson@ncfjcruisers.com

Follow me on Twitter: @NCFJ_Cruisers1

NCFJ Cruisers YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/NCFJCruisers

2010 Trail Teams Edition - ToyTec 3" Ultimate Lift, Light Racing UCA's, PIAA XTreme White Plus headlights, PIAA 520 series Fog/Driving lights, 2010 BudBuilt Front Skid, BudBuilt engine skid, Ricochet LCA guards, BajaRack OEM roofrack basket, MaxTrax recovery ramps, Husky Floor Liners, Midland 75-822 40 Channel 2 Way Radio, Bandi Mount with 4' Firestick II, OrangeBoxx Side Cubby PSD (NCFJ Edition), Outrider Suspension armor, K&N drop in airfilter for on-road travel, OEM Airfilter when wheeling.....
Back to top Go down
http://forum.ncfjcruisers.com
bigdogdewey2
ADMINISTRATOR
ADMINISTRATOR
bigdogdewey2

Posts : 3697
Points : 7548
Join date : 2011-08-30
Age : 53
Location : High Point, NC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2012 7:53 pm

definetly dont go alone..but i would also say just stay on the trail....the trail itself is enough fun to not have to worry about going off the trail....
Back to top Go down
FJ Derek
SUPPORTING MEMBER
SUPPORTING MEMBER
FJ Derek

Posts : 571
Points : 3998
Join date : 2012-07-12
Age : 36
Location : Greensboro

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Aug 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Good deal. I'll probably hold off on hitting it this weekend then because I don't think anyone else will be in the area this weekend
Back to top Go down
Southeast Overland
VENDOR - SEO
VENDOR - SEO
Southeast Overland

Posts : 459
Points : 4109
Join date : 2012-01-18
Age : 42
Location : Seneca, SC

***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Jul 12, 2013 4:45 pm

I am bumping this thread.

Please remember that if you choose to drive this trail there have been advisories regarding staying on the legal route, being mindful of private property and land owners, and not driving up the streams.

Travel is at your own risk.
Back to top Go down
http://www.SoutheastOverland.com
Sponsored content




***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC    ***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC  - Page 2 Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
***Advisory*** Richlands/Penley Rd Watauga NC
Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
NCFJ Cruisers :: Events :: Individual Trail Rides-
Jump to: