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 POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT

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bigdogdewey2
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 10:38 pm

crogers6569 wrote:
you should run that over to toyota and ask them to explain to you why they recomended a replacement.

Its not a think thing... any toyota 8" is going to be a 31 spline equal diameter shaft. the only differences are length of the shaft and the bearing on the end. All of the brake components are mounts from the hub itself.

oh i will ...and there will be more to that too....im in the middle of a letter ...ill let you know how that goes...the letter will be going to several people...cant wait to see what it brings....
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 10:55 pm

want the CEO of Toyota North America's email


Jim_Lentz@toyota.com


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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 11:01 pm

Jim Lentz......witha space between the names? or underscore?
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 12:13 am

underscore between
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 12:31 am

Thanks dude...i got the letter written and will be sending it shortly.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 1:34 am

its a matter of principle...im not expecting anything in the way of compensation or parts or anything. This boils down to the way i was treated and how the situation was handled in general. I realize and admit that the damage and the broken axle shaft were my own doing. I found the limits of MY FJ Cruiser. I didnt go into the dealership with the hopes that they would say it was covered by the warranty. I would have liked that as the outcome. When a dealership sells a specific vehicle and the Company portrays that vehicle as a capable off road vehicle in national advertisements through several media outlets and styles one would expect that they also would stand behind said vehicle.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 11:17 am

If you need me to sign anything to send to Toyota Mike let me know I will stand behind that !
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 4:49 pm

Mike, good to know that it's just the shaft. Discouraging to know that Toyota's representatives steered you the wrong way with the repair of the entire axle just forsome bent LCA's and a axle shaft, shame on them. I still have not heard back from my peeps about getting the half shafts, sorry man.

It is a good idea for sure to have back up axle shafts and cv's for a trail repair.

What is the census on beefy up these axles? Will adding lower gears strengthen our axles or is that enough insurance from breakage? I know that sooner or latter something will become the fuse and break, especially as we push our rig's harder and start adding alot of weight and bigger tires.

What would you say is the main concern with larger tires, the weight or the circumference? If u were to run say a 70 lbs 33" tire would that be worse then running a 34"-35" 60-65 lbs tire?
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 6:21 pm

its the added weight for sure..not too shure tha 10 lbs is ginna make a huge deal...i will tell you that the difference between the Bridgestone Dueler HT that comes on the truck is gonna give a whole lot easier due to the fact that they are a much slicker tread therefore the much grippier KM2s are gonna hook up with the terrain much more there fore the instant they grab traction that is the instant you break stuff...the weight certainly has something to do with it...but if a tire slips it the chances of it breaking something else is much less...its just that "instant" that it hooks up is the problem....another instance wold be when you lower the air pressure..the more tire you have on the ground the more it will grip!
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 7:07 pm

Darklight wrote:
Mike, good to know that it's just the shaft. Discouraging to know that Toyota's representatives steered you the wrong way with the repair of the entire axle just forsome bent LCA's and a axle shaft, shame on them. I still have not heard back from my peeps about getting the half shafts, sorry man.

It is a good idea for sure to have back up axle shafts and cv's for a trail repair.

What is the census on beefy up these axles? Will adding lower gears strengthen our axles or is that enough insurance from breakage? I know that sooner or latter something will become the fuse and break, especially as we push our rig's harder and start adding alot of weight and bigger tires.

What would you say is the main concern with larger tires, the weight or the circumference? If u were to run say a 70 lbs 33" tire would that be worse then running a 34"-35" 60-65 lbs tire?



Weight isnt the problem with axle shafts. The problem is that you are pushing more torque and HP through to spin a bigger wheel and tire. Stab a paper clip into the end of a pencil eraser and bend it 90*. Now grab the pencil at one end in one hand and the eraser itself in the other hand and twist from teh pencil end. now grab progressively farther out the paperclip and turn from the pencil end. You notice the resistence increases exponentially the farther out the paper clip you grab it.

Same principal with bigger tires. Now couple that with added traction and it gets harder on the axle, add lower gears and you have more torque turning an equal load without upgrading your pencil. By the same token if you dont regear then you are pushing more HP and torque through the same differential to spin the increased load of the larger tire. The key is to balance the forces and upgrade shafts. Best case would be matching the gear ratio in the diff to your tire size in order to return as close to factory gearing as possible and upgrade the shaft to a stronger or more resilent metal in order to compensate for the increased amount o ftorque applied to the increased amount of resistance.

As for CV's you suddenly open a whole other can of worms... they are stronger the more level the joints are as more of the joint is ingaged in teh CV cups. When you add weight you increase the chance of the suspension cycling to a full droop which decreses the maximum breaking strength, add to that full droop a steering angle and you further decrease the CV's strength. On top of this you have misaligned ball joints unless you are running a custom IFS when the suspension cycles which adds yet another angle to the CV, you have the possibility of a bad wheel bearing causing some binding, and you have a weaker front housing supporting the power supplied to them and it just gets scary. Carry a spare and dont think about it. Dont go for the biggest is best approach, and carry the tools to fix your mess when it does break.

after we finish axle education I want to move on to the another topic.... like transmission failure.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 7:22 pm

did your tranny fail its spring semester Chad?
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 7:34 pm

bigdogdewey2 wrote:
Thanks dude...i got the letter written and will be sending it shortly.

Will definately like to hear what the response, if any, is.Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Tue May 08, 2012 9:41 pm

NC FJ Driver wrote:
bigdogdewey2 wrote:
Thanks dude...i got the letter written and will be sending it shortly.

Will definately like to hear what the response, if any, is.Neutral

im not expecting much at all in the way of responses...im thinking of posting the letter on here ...but if i do it will be open to too much criticism...not that it sounds stupid ..just that i dont really need 100 different opinions on what i say....
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Wed May 09, 2012 8:30 am

bigdogdewey2 wrote:
NC FJ Driver wrote:
bigdogdewey2 wrote:
Thanks dude...i got the letter written and will be sending it shortly.

Will definately like to hear what the response, if any, is.Neutral

im not expecting much at all in the way of responses...im thinking of posting the letter on here ...but if i do it will be open to too much criticism...not that it sounds stupid ..just that i dont really need 100 different opinions on what i say....
Personally, I think you should keep it yourself. But if you get a positive, neutral, or negative response it would be nice to know how their customer service reacts. My bet is they stand behind their technician with some kind of technical mumbo jumbo to prove him right which you have the proof that he is not.
Now a view from the techs position, agree or not this is the way it is. We are not always correct, but when we can prove what we are saying is wrong we expect the company to stand behind us. If we misdiaignose a failled part or parts we should do the repair with the required parts not the original estimate. This is not to say that there are techs out there on commission who will take advantage of a situation to line their own pockets. Which is what it sounds like you had happen to you. If this is the case and the dealership is a stand up dealership he won't be there long, but he will still be in the business. So he will strike again. I do not work on commission and I am not always correct on my diagnoses. But I will repair the failure with the best and safest repair I can.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Wed May 09, 2012 9:25 am

Thanks for the encouragement Chad Smile
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Wed May 09, 2012 9:37 am

So, to strengthen up these axles we need to look at regearing to match tire size to stock ratio many are at 4.56 or 4.88 depending on tire size. Upgrade the axle shaft with stronger axle material like Chromoly for example. Try to keep wheel spin to a minimum.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Wed May 09, 2012 10:38 am

you got it Bobby...thats what it boils down to...LOL

unfortunately its expensive
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PostSubject: axles   Wed May 09, 2012 11:34 am

Big tire big lugs = breakage. In my experience from my multiple 4runners and 3 xjs when I run a 31 mud swamper etc. I have little or no breakeage welded front and rear usually. I always then upgrade to 33's and bald or low tread ones fine, get a bogger or something that can all of a sudden take a grip then it goes pow. I just replaced the the 4th rear axle in a year on my xj. As soon as I got boggers on the rear I started snapping my rear shafts at the outside of the splines. On my xj the rear tires just walks away with the axle in tow. Last time I replaced it I drove around my yard and then hit a small hill in my yard real steep and off camber and pow another goner. I'm saving up for chromoly axles and a front locker to keep the stress from being all on the rear when the front starts to slip. Good luck I',m with the replace with chromoly and run a 33 at, or ease on the hammer dropping just a hair. Paw at it first. I'm not the one to talk I spend more time replacing axles on my jeep than wheeling it want dana 44 s front and rear bad.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Thu May 10, 2012 4:33 pm

Im thinking that you should be alright with a larger tire Bobby. You wheel pretty easy on your rig and have open diffs so you have little chance of breaking something.

Only problem with the 4 runner going bigger is wheel spacers and upper a-arms and all kinds of inner fender triming and rear wheel ell clearance. I just got back from discount tire exchanging new 315/70/17's for 285/70/17s and the 285's still rub on the a-arm under flex and hopefully the wheel spacers mike is delivering from ECGS will fix the frame contact.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Thu May 10, 2012 4:38 pm

I thought u got 295s?
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Thu May 10, 2012 4:51 pm

they didnt work either... rubbed way too bad. went back and swapped back down. Im tired of being at the tire shop needless to say. started at 8:15 this morning got the 315s on and they rubbed hard went home tried a 2" spacer off toby and some trimming but no luck.

went back with the 295 when i called you tried the 2" wheel spacer still but that hit the ffront bumper harder than im currently willing to trim. tried without the spacer and they work but hit the a-arm hard when it flexes some.

Im hoping that the 285 with a 1.25" spacer that your bringing me will clear the a-arm under flex and steering but it finally doesnt hit fenders or bumpers.

If your looking for a street queen style rig you could get away with the 315 or the 295 but you wont be going offroad without lots more modification and lots of money
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Thu May 10, 2012 5:16 pm

What size wheel/backspacing are you mounting on? I was thinking of 295's as my next tire....
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Thu May 10, 2012 5:22 pm

im runnign factory toyota 17's on a 4th gen... I think the 3rd gen has a little more clearance .
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Thu May 10, 2012 6:34 pm

crogers6569 wrote:
Im thinking that you should be alright with a larger tire Bobby. You wheel pretty easy on your rig and have open diffs so you have little chance of breaking something.

Thats the old Bobby. The new lifted Bobby is bad Buh-tox and doesn't take crap from any terrain!
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Thu May 10, 2012 9:34 pm

Bobby.....yeah the 285 is just about right...its big in the RNR wheel well...295 i see now are just tooooo big...there is NO WAY uare gonna put 295s AND wheel...not happening unless you plan on spending money...sorry bro!!
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