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 POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT

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bigdogdewey2
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 2:45 pm

plus remember...i had forward tire spin, sliding backwards and got the tire stuck in a "V" notch in the rock...yeah dont know of too many that wouldnt have broken ...at least stockers..
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 2:57 pm

I was waiting for that Cherokee to flip over backwards too. He was within a degree of doing it.....
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 3:51 pm

Oh yes, the cherokee almost flipped over and lost his beverages, then the jeep busted his junk almost immediately, then Mike says " do I need to let the FJ show them how it's done" Cool Well you tried and tried and I thought you almost had it for a second. I am still trying to get up our pictures from this trip, they should be up this weekend,

Bobby
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 5:05 pm

Definitely kudos for giving it a shot. Everyone has to accept eventually they will break something. That is unless they never go off road. To me the money you are spending is worth it. The money others are spending on their mall crawlers is wasted.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 6:24 pm

Same spot like 2 years ago. Its only got worse due to erosion. He broke his rear axle shaft.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 8:34 pm

Ouch! That didn't take much at all to snap...
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 9:49 pm

Ok here's the thing with this breakage. The 34+ tire size is too much in the 120 platforms stock form if you want to be worry free. The 8" is basically unchanged since 1980 and was powered by 90hp motors. Now on the 120platform we ask the same axle to carry double the weight with double or more hp and torque with larger tires and locking diffs. Now if you want to reliably run 34+ tires i would highly recommend getting upgraded shafts carry a spare driveshaft u joint because that is the next weakest link unless you run the elocker where the carrier becomes the fuse.

As for the grand Cherokee... he popped a axle ujoint. Turn to the lock and touque the frontend and your asking for joint failure. Dont believe me... try it on your next outing.

Every time i have beat on the 4runner you might have noticed i keep steering to a minimum. Seen way too many cv,s let loose with open diffs and wheelspin... throw in ATRAC and its a recipie for breakage.

Now would i run the same setup mike is? Absolutely.... but i would carry spares upgrade accordingly, and know what the limits are. Thankfully and regrettably Mike found the limit of a stock shaft for us. He also found the limit of a front knukle for us. All imsaying is dont become abig tire conquers all crowd. Sometimes knowing the limits and knowing how to handle your rig are much easier on the wallet and will result in more seat time and less wrench time.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 10:54 pm

i absolutely agree with what you have to say..i will be getting a spare along with the one i put in the truck next week...these trucks (FJs and 4RNRs) are HEAVY vehicles...compare them to a 4RNR of the mid 80s...id say at least 30% heavier...if not more..will i continue to wheel the way i do ..probably..but honestly NOT until i can carry spares of anything that COULD or WILL break...i have always wheeled pretty hard..not to abuse mind you...never to abuse thats jsut stupid...a guarantee to get yourself stranded...but i have wheeled hard i have always been the type of person to take the path less traveled...
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 11:26 pm

Mike I cant find any vids or pictures of any 120 platform vehicle that is running a tire as large or larger than yours without having gone with a solid axle swap and swapping the rear axle out in the process.

I think if you are going to continue to push the FJ up the harder lines you might be finding a few more weak points.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 11:48 pm

crogers6569 wrote:
Ok here's the thing with this breakage. The 34+ tire size is too much in the 120 platforms stock form if you want to be worry free. The 8" is basically unchanged since 1980 and was powered by 90hp motors. Now on the 120platform we ask the same axle to carry double the weight with double or more hp and torque with larger tires and locking diffs. Now if you want to reliably run 34+ tires i would highly recommend getting upgraded shafts carry a spare driveshaft u joint because that is the next weakest link unless you run the elocker where the carrier becomes the fuse.

As for the grand Cherokee... he popped a axle ujoint. Turn to the lock and touque the frontend and your asking for joint failure. Dont believe me... try it on your next outing.

Every time i have beat on the 4runner you might have noticed i keep steering to a minimum. Seen way too many cv,s let loose with open diffs and wheelspin... throw in ATRAC and its a recipie for breakage.

Now would i run the same setup mike is? Absolutely.... but i would carry spares upgrade accordingly, and know what the limits are. Thankfully and regrettably Mike found the limit of a stock shaft for us. He also found the limit of a front knukle for us. All imsaying is dont become abig tire conquers all crowd. Sometimes knowing the limits and knowing how to handle your rig are much easier on the wallet and will result in more seat time and less wrench time.

Very well stated. I agree that the axles are undersized for the weight and HP of the current vehicles they are used in. A buddy of mine in the NE just grenaded a carrier a couple weeks back, total loss.

I carried a rear axle (bearing and backing plate still on it) and front CV shaft with me when I was wheeling my FJC. The wheeling gods were with me and I never needed either. I did however shear teeth of the rear ring gear, it locked up and the T-case output shaft sheared. Why the u-joints did not take the hit I can't explain.

Point is, if you are going to wheel your FJC hard running bigger tires you need to take due diligence and upgrade axles and think hard about replacing the E-locker with a better built model such as an ARB. More and more FJC owners are begining to replace the rear axles with D-60s and 9 inch axles for just this reason. Obviously it does not end there as the front CV axles, center chunk and spindles need to be addressed. The list goes on.

Experience will teach you what you need to carry as will listening to your wheeling buddies with more time on the trail.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Fri May 04, 2012 11:56 pm

Mike if I were you I would wheel carefully and be judicious about when and where you would like to try harder lines. As you upgrade parts start trying harder lines.

Or

Let me drive... I havent broken anything ever on my 4runner Very Happy Just worn some stuff flat out.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Sat May 05, 2012 12:41 am

yeah thats cool..i plan on upgrading as much as i can obviously...

on another note im gonna be taking the axle out tomorrow in anticipation of the real job
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Sat May 05, 2012 5:59 pm

ok so today i decided to take everything apart...not a bad or hard job to be honest with you...it was actually harder to jack the truck up than to take all the parts off the truck and axle housing...actually there was on thing that was kinda hard to get off and that was the darn little plug that goes ontot the speed sensor....

after calling Crogers in the middle of the teardown to just check if i was doing everything right i found out that the snapped end of the shaft is actually gone and out of the carrier itself ...it was remeoved best i can tell by the stealership when they removed the 3rd member...

The shaft was actually snapped off clean as a whistle right after the neckdown before the splines...and i mean CLEAN!!!...







as you can see from the first pic that just below the clean snap is where the axle shaft starts to actually neck down...so the shaft snapped about 3/8" to 1/2" from where it necks down. In the second pic you can see just how clean the break is...in the third pic you will see that there is nothing left in the carrier...no shaft pieces...

so now all i have to do is order parts and get the old shaft pressed off the hub and bearings and switch them out and put it all back together...

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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Sat May 05, 2012 6:15 pm

Mike I am happy to see you did not break anything else! I was afraid you had done something to the spiders as well. But you did not good job on the tear down.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Sat May 05, 2012 6:30 pm

yeah well so far thats all i know for now...everything else looks fine so far...
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 10:33 am

Hey Mike - out of curiosity, are you replacing with a stock axle? Do you know if anyone makes an upgraded axle? How much is the stocker, and are the left and right the same?

I have a friend that makes upgraded axles for race cars. Wondering if I can get him to make me some for the Toyota..... Smile
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 10:46 am

I'm planning on replacing with a used axle off eBay...I can get those from anywhere between $65 and $100 ...a new from Toyota is around $350 ...way too much in my opinion...supposedly East Coast Gear Supply has them for $270 but for one... all these prices are for one axle...if u have a buddy that makes axles then great...I see a huge market for it as long as he can make them reasonably cheap...personally I think $250- $300 for a pair would be fair...maybe even $350 ...I would love to work with someone on this ..be willing to test and R&D
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 10:51 am

I wonder if the FJ and Tacoma axles are the same?

Edit: Nevermind - they're different. Tacoma's have drum brakes in the rear.... Sad
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 4:10 pm

Your tacos has drums in the rear? I'm very surprised at that...
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 4:13 pm

bigdogdewey2 wrote:
Your tacos has drums in the rear? I'm very surprised at that...

Yep. I didn't realize they still put drum brakes on the rear of modern vehicles. But I guess a pickup truck doesn't have as much weight back there to need 'em.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 6:34 pm

Same shaft though... as long as the width is right. The hub and brake assembly are the difference.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 7:10 pm

crogers6569 wrote:
Same shaft though... as long as the width is right. The hub and brake assembly are the difference.

You would think - but I can't turn up any info on rear axles for the Tacoma. Only thing I find are from the dealer - at about $350/ea. Tons of stuff turn up for the FJ though.
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 7:31 pm

id be willing to bet that they are the same shaft though...
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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 7:50 pm

ok so ...heres the latest skinny on the axle removal and replacement...

i decided that the best thing for me to do was to inspect the 3rd member and make sure all the splines and ring and pinion teeth were in good shape and not broken or twisted...
Nick (MadToy) posted a link from Toyota120 on the procedure to remove the 3rd member and Elocker...i used those procedures and i have to say...NOT A PROBLEM....it was actually very very easy...the hardest part of the whole thing was the fact that the darn 3rd is heavy as hell...and there are two very long studs that the 3rd has to slide off to actually come off...not a whole lot of room but enough to actually get it off ....if you ever have to pull your third follow that link (and i will repost it at the beginning of this thread...) it is very easy to do...i am one to always bust a knuckle and bleed anytime im working on the truck and this is the first time i have not...i

Thank you MadToy for the link and now i know how to do the work on the rear end...AWESOME feeling actually...

here are the pics of the 3rd and the splines in the carrier...







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PostSubject: Re: POSSIBLE BROKEN PASSENGER AXLE SHAFT   Mon May 07, 2012 10:23 pm

you should run that over to toyota and ask them to explain to you why they recomended a replacement.

Its not a think thing... any toyota 8" is going to be a 31 spline equal diameter shaft. the only differences are length of the shaft and the bearing on the end. All of the brake components are mounts from the hub itself.
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